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Talk:Mijin Gakure
Could someone try to find this out? all it would take is a friend and a NIN job, but I dont have that. Uncertain: Resets hate of all party members after use. ~Andres Hmm, interesting, I've never heard this. I suppose I could test it out. It would definitely be interesting and a lot more useful if this is the case. I believe Mijin Gakure counts as a Fire-based attack, and can therefore be resisted. One time a LS mate and I, both Hume and about the same level NIN at the time, both used Mijin Gakure against a random Doom Scorpion in Eastern Altepa. Mine did ~200 damage (I had full HP), then his did ~500 damage (he also had full HP). Since the damage is so unreliable and usually quite low, I would say that Mijin Gakure is in most cases not a strategically viable 2 hour (unless it turns out it DOES reset hate). However, I have used it many times just to prevent EXP loss (or just to warp), and I would say that's its most useful function. -Aiya New Section for this entry It might be worthwhile to have a section noting the differences in how Mijin Gakure works when used by a player vs. when it is used by an enemy. I think this is worthwhile since it seems to be the only 2-Hour which works differently between players and monsters (not sure about BST's Familiar though with monsters). --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 22:37, 26 March 2006 (PST) ---- From what I've read, the Mijin Gakure differences are: player- single-target, kills player, 0XP loss, damage depends on HP enemy- AoE, monster lives on, damage does not depend on HP It would be cool if we can get confirmation on what the monster does for this. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 17:19, 27 March 2006 (PST) :mijin gakure dmg for mobs is most certainly based on it's hp. in the fight with the CoP 7-4 fight against the tonberry i duo'd it with a rdm, around lvl 45 i think, and first time he got hit for 4000 dmg (exactly), the tonberry had around 80% hp (don't remember what i took). we wiped, and the second time we fought it, it used mijin around 30% hp, and he only took around 1-2k dmg. :also, if you pay attention to hp in dynamis, it clearly varies by it's hp. varying from up to 3k was the highest i've ever seen, to double digit dmg, if it uses it right before it dies. -- 21:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC) Hate Reset Check Can we have someone check if this 2-Hour resets hate for everyone in the party or not. The test should be simple enough, use this in a party with a PLD as tank and see if the Hate shifts off the PLD when another Job attacks or uses a spell that would normally not shift hate off a PLD unless the PLD is no longer holding Hate. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 14:34, 3 June 2006 (PDT) Well for Kirin fights we would just have nins mijin towards the end just for damage. Although this isnt a single party setup, nins would mijin followed by blm aeroga III, and the kiting paladins still have hate. Vivix 00:12, 24 July 2006 (EDT) Mijin Gakure does not reset hate from another player. I have tested this with my husband who is a Ninja. I am a Paladin and aggroed a goblin in Bibiki Bay. My husband starting fighting it and then Mijin Gakured on it. The mob then turned on me and continued to pound me. So I ended up having to Warp Cudgel out of there.--FFXI-Mischa 20:57, 17 October 2007 (UTC) fire element damage? There's a note in the "Talk" section for AUM 35 (Testing the Waters) that states Mijin Gakure is NOT fire damage - that is, Barfira doesn't reduce damage when, say, a Yagudo Ninja in Dynamis-Windy whips out Mijin Gakure on your alliance. That was interesting news to me. If this is indeed a myth, it's so widespread that it bears explicit debunking here. --Vaprak 22:58, 5 July 2007 (CDT) :Completely untrue, numerous tests have been done proving that Barfire reduces the damage taken by Mijin Gakure. -- 20:47, 24 July 2007 (CDT) ::Not completely untrue. Barfira does not directly reduce mijin gakure damage or any fire damage. Barfira increases the chance to resist fire damage. --Beaux 12:29, 30 July 2007 (CDT) :::My experience soloing Beryl-footed Molberry: If I dont have Barfire when he does Mijin Gakure it land unresisted... usually killing me. --Moosehp 20:25, 10 August 2007 (CDT) ::::Odd, completely the opposite for me. I went 1/34ish on hototogisu and usually 2boxed my brd alt.. Suzaku's Sune-ate + barfira(admittedly gimp from /whm skill) + fire carol(Usually soul voiced) did not seem to have any impact, only mob's hp. Usually did Jin around 25% to get it low enough it can't one shot me, and I can count the resists over 34 fights on one hand :/ That same amount of fire resistance is enough to cripple tiamat, if Mijin Gakure was really fire based, I'd assume it'd be enough to resist a mid-60s NM >_> :::::A way to test whether it is fire damage: Have 2 people with the same race, job, gear, and level, both wearing bomb queen ring. One person gets barfira from a WHM wearing blessed briault, the other person gets barfira from the same WHM, same gear, not wearing blessed briault. Then have those 2 people get hit by the same mijin gakure. (And hope they either don't get a resist or they get the same resist.) This will tell for sure, because the blessed briault barfira actually reduces fire damage instead of just increasing the chance to resist it. The same race, job, gear, and level, should be used to exclude as many unknown variables as possible. --Beaux 18:22, 22 August 2007 (CDT) ::::::This is completely empirical, but from doing a lot of Dynamis, I always observe that if the Alliance has Barfira up, Mijin Gakure doesn't do bad damage, as opposed as not having it up, which means we could even wipe from it. I really would like some serious tests on it. --Imoq 06:08, 17 August 2008 (UTC) :::::::I would think that since it shows up on the job ability command window (IE the box is red) as a fire ability the ability is indeed fire-based. Kincard 01:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC) ::::::::Apparantly S-E released some "did you know" type info points for Vanafest in Japan, one of them was that Mijin Gakure is non-elemental. When I remember which podcast I heard this on, I'll update with a link --Jamiesan 10:39, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :::::::::For further proof, I recently Mijin Gakure'd a T Fire Elemental and it did the normal full damage, which was about 600. --Redler 00:16, 22 January 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::This is the only test you need. Elementals WILL resist attacks matching their element. 00:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC) :::::::::LOL. S-E is notorious for misinformation and weird coding. One test is not enough to prove or disprove validity. Mileage is likely to vary based on many variables such as a mob's own innate elemental resistance and accuracy versus a player's stats, gear and whatnot. Mijin Gakure on a Player Ninja is listed RED (fire based) in the player's Abilities Selection Log. In theory, the easiest way to test for elemental damage is during day or weather instances of the same element or opposing element. On Fire element day or weather, your damage should be a little higher than during neutral day or weather. On Water day or weather, your damage should be lower than neutral day or weather. I've done the Water day test multiple times to blood warp to homepoint from Lufaise Meadows when the region is under beast control. My neutral damage range is in the 800-1000 on the bees in Lufaise. During Water day, my Mijin Gakure is in the 600-800 range. On Fire day, I get no resistance and only get maximum damage. I can only conclude that Mijin Gakure IS fire based from my tests. You most definately do get elemental resitance on Water day. On Fire day, instead of additional damage, you get better accuracy or little elemental resistance for FULL damage. Mijin Gakure is NOT the same as fire magic damage which gives you additional magic attack and accuracy. However, fire day or weather will give you elemental accuracy while water day or weather will give you negative elemental accuracy. Mijin gakure is more appropriately classed as a fire based hybrid physical attack with elemental accuracy bonuses/penalties. I think the most likely classification for Mijin Gakure is Breath-type damage with a random number somewhere in the equation. One way to test this would be to do trials of taking Mijin Gakure hits while wearing -Breath damage% gear.--KyteStrike 03:00, 2 June 2009 (UTC) The Engrish translation from S-E might be incorrect when trying to convey elemental resistance versus elemental magic attack. The idea is to think of mijin gakure as a fire based weaponskill rather than a fire based magic spell. Regarding Barfira: Barfira should help mitigate some damage through providing some fire element resistance IF MOB mijin gakure follows the same rules as PLAYER mijin gakure. Player mijin gakure is single target damage while mob mijin gakure is AOE damage which is why shell gives some resistance to mob mijin gakure. Again, S-E is notorious for weird coding and may have coded mijin gakure differently for NPCs and PLAYERS. --Grumpette 15:00, 12 February 2009 (UTC) Mijin Gakure when used by a player does not heal ifrit prime, it hurts him. The damage is likely similar to spirits within type damage, and isn't fire based. --Annalise 23:24, September 27, 2009 (UTC) Items that enhance Has anyone with a Reacton Arm tested any difference? I know it will be awhile before anyone tries it with a Nagi but i was wondering if we know what to expect from the relic from the arm. --GodsBlackArm 21:12, 30 October 2008 (UTC) Post July '09 Update As we all know, since the update, when you use Mijin Gakure and get raised/reraise, you come up with 50% HP and are not weakened. Well, someone in my LS just asked an interesting question: If you are weakened, and use Mijin Gakure, will you still come up unweakened? (In other words, using Mijin Gakure to get rid of Weakness early.) Well, he tried it in Besieged, and sure enough, even though he'd only been weakened for about a minute, he used Mijin Gakure and reraised and was unweakened. So now you can use this to get rid of Weakness early, assuming this doesn't get changed. --Kyrie 21:05, 23 July 2009 (UTC) Indeed, it works and removes Weakness! I just tried it too right outside San d'Oria, I used Mijin while weakened, and I got up unweakened. I definitely hope they won't change this, it makes Mijin Gakure finally useful :) Soily 14:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC) Magic Defense Bonus The version of this article prior to my edit listed Barfire as a form of Magic Defense Bonus, which is incorrect. It used this false information to claim that MDB does not affect Mijin Gakure damage, which I left in with a verification tag. While it is true that Barfire does not affect Mijin damage, I would appreciate it if somebody could provide the correct information concerning MDB's effect on Mijin damage. This can be tested in Ballista with two Ninjas with the same HP using Mijin Gakure on each other. One should be /WHM or /RDM (for MDB), the other can sub any other job. Even with a half resist you should be able to accurately deduce an answer. --Nightfyre717 22:58, December 1, 2009 (UTC) Yeah, I thought all the barspells did was provide Magic Evasion for a specific element/status... quite different than MDB. - 17:14, September 24, 2010 (UTC) Aggro/Hate Reset The "reset hate" notion is probably from people's misunderstanding about how aggro and hate works. firstly, if you are aggro'd from a monster, you are not on its hate list (except in special situations). that being said, if someone claims that monster and dies, the monster will have forgotten about you. Example, such as using Mijin Gakure on a monster that does aggro, it will drop aggro on that particular person, as Mijin Gakure counts as claiming - and as death. Another thing someone mentioned was that after her husbands ninja used mijin gakure, it continued to attack her. Well, that's normal. Hate reset does not drop you off the hate list, it resets your hate to 0 (or 1?) Examples here, Tame and Hide drop aggro, the monster will stop attacking. Enmity douse drops hate, the monster will continue to attack. Not to say that I am advocating hate reset, it was simply a misunderstanding that must be corrected. The same applies to using an AoE ability via a pet, you are not on the hate list until you perform an action that directly affects the pet, although I'm unsure as to whether things like Reward and Spur count, as they are performed on Self and extend to the pet, I'm fairly sure that the only ability that puts you on the hate list is Fight. --Nattack 07:47, March 15, 2011 (UTC)